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	<title>Comments on: ODF Spreadsheet Interoperability: Theory and Practice</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html</link>
	<description>Thinking the unthinkable, pondering the imponderable, effing the ineffable and scruting the inscrutable</description>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2222</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2222</guid>
		<description>Hi Răzvan,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;When Office 2007 SP2 comes out I will certainly examine it and do a blog post on what I find out.  I have heard that there is a beta version of it, but this appears to be a private beta and I do not have access to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Răzvan,</p>
<p>When Office 2007 SP2 comes out I will certainly examine it and do a blog post on what I find out.  I have heard that there is a beta version of it, but this appears to be a private beta and I do not have access to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Răzvan Sandu</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2221</link>
		<dc:creator>Răzvan Sandu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2221</guid>
		<description>Rob, would you please let us know your opinion on the following practical matter?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We are in March 2009 and MS Office 2007 SP2 ia announced for mid-April. So beta versions should exist...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As announced, Microsoft will (hopefully) support ODF in SP2&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;When SP2 is officially launched, what should a regular user do?  Did you perform tests on this SP2? Can we RELIABLY rely on SP2 for opening/creating ODf documents or are they some proprietary &quot;extensions&quot; already?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The vast majority of MS Office users - should they still need third-party plugins or...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;IMHO, this topic is so important for all the community that it worth a separate discussion on your blog...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thanks A LOT,&lt;br/&gt;Răzvan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, would you please let us know your opinion on the following practical matter?</p>
<p>We are in March 2009 and MS Office 2007 SP2 ia announced for mid-April. So beta versions should exist&#8230;</p>
<p>As announced, Microsoft will (hopefully) support ODF in SP2</p>
<p>When SP2 is officially launched, what should a regular user do?  Did you perform tests on this SP2? Can we RELIABLY rely on SP2 for opening/creating ODf documents or are they some proprietary &#8220;extensions&#8221; already?</p>
<p>The vast majority of MS Office users &#8211; should they still need third-party plugins or&#8230;</p>
<p>IMHO, this topic is so important for all the community that it worth a separate discussion on your blog&#8230;</p>
<p>Thanks A LOT,<br />Răzvan</p>
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		<title>By: Bart Hanssens</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2220</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Hanssens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2220</guid>
		<description>On a related note, the ODF-Converter project posted a blog item on how they will deal with formulas in their next version of the plug-in:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://odf-converter.sourceforge.net/newblog/index.php?2009/03/13/28-how-the-openxml-odf-translator-deals-with-formulas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a related note, the ODF-Converter project posted a blog item on how they will deal with formulas in their next version of the plug-in:</p>
<p><a href="http://odf-converter.sourceforge.net/newblog/index.php?2009/03/13/28-how-the-openxml-odf-translator-deals-with-formulas" rel="nofollow">http://odf-converter.sourceforge.net/newblog/index.php?2009/03/13/28-how-the-openxml-odf-translator-deals-with-formulas</a></p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2199</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2199</guid>
		<description>@Victor,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think we&#039;re in a different situation than with HTML.  We don&#039;t have 10 million people hand-authoring ODF documents.  We have 5 or 6 different spreadsheet editors, and the number of different namespaces in use for spreadsheet formulas appears to be only 2.  So I think the Robustness Principle is appropriate here.  But your point (Joel&#039;s point) is well-taken.  It can get out of control if you let it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Victor,</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;re in a different situation than with HTML.  We don&#8217;t have 10 million people hand-authoring ODF documents.  We have 5 or 6 different spreadsheet editors, and the number of different namespaces in use for spreadsheet formulas appears to be only 2.  So I think the Robustness Principle is appropriate here.  But your point (Joel&#8217;s point) is well-taken.  It can get out of control if you let it.</p>
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		<title>By: Victor</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2194</link>
		<dc:creator>Victor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2194</guid>
		<description>Word of caution: “Be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others” is only good if you add your hacks to the standard. Else it&#039;ll create madness. This already happended with Web (HTML5 ties to fix it, but it&#039;s HARD) - no need to repeat this fiasco with office suites. Joel has nice explanation:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/03/17.html&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Basically the problem is that if few players (especially dominant players) accept broken, not standard-compliant input it makes standard useless: at this point it&#039;s not enough to faithfully implement existing standard - you must process all quirks too!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;That&#039;s why all &quot;broad inputs&quot; MUST be discussed with standards group, documented and added to the standard (may be as prefix).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Word of caution: “Be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others” is only good if you add your hacks to the standard. Else it&#8217;ll create madness. This already happended with Web (HTML5 ties to fix it, but it&#8217;s HARD) &#8211; no need to repeat this fiasco with office suites. Joel has nice explanation:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/03/17.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/03/17.html</a></p>
<p>Basically the problem is that if few players (especially dominant players) accept broken, not standard-compliant input it makes standard useless: at this point it&#8217;s not enough to faithfully implement existing standard &#8211; you must process all quirks too!</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why all &#8220;broad inputs&#8221; MUST be discussed with standards group, documented and added to the standard (may be as prefix).</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2192</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2192</guid>
		<description>@Tom, I&#039;ll add a link to the current OpenFormula Working Draft at the bottom of the main post.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;@Luc,  If you look at the OpenFormula draft you will see inline test cases defined for each formula.  Some smart person, i.e., not me, wrote a program to extract these test cases and make a self-testing ODF spreadsheet document.  It puts the formulas in one column, the expected results in a second column and uses a third column to indicate whether the test case passed.  The test cases used the OpenOffice namespace.  I haven&#039;t tried the ODF 1.2 namespace.  If I did that I&#039;d also want to be more careful about using the latest versions of the application, e.g., The KOffice 2 beta, or OpenOffice 3.01.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;@Bart, I&#039;m using the Sun ODF Plugin 1.2.  If version 3 is out already, then I&#039;m using an old version.  I&#039;ll try the new one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tom, I&#8217;ll add a link to the current OpenFormula Working Draft at the bottom of the main post.</p>
<p>@Luc,  If you look at the OpenFormula draft you will see inline test cases defined for each formula.  Some smart person, i.e., not me, wrote a program to extract these test cases and make a self-testing ODF spreadsheet document.  It puts the formulas in one column, the expected results in a second column and uses a third column to indicate whether the test case passed.  The test cases used the OpenOffice namespace.  I haven&#8217;t tried the ODF 1.2 namespace.  If I did that I&#8217;d also want to be more careful about using the latest versions of the application, e.g., The KOffice 2 beta, or OpenOffice 3.01.</p>
<p>@Bart, I&#8217;m using the Sun ODF Plugin 1.2.  If version 3 is out already, then I&#8217;m using an old version.  I&#8217;ll try the new one.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart Hanssens</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2191</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Hanssens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2191</guid>
		<description>Hmm, did you perhaps test the Sun ODF plugin version 3.0 ?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;That might explain the highest score, since it&#039;s based on the OOo 3 codebase, beating 2.4 and other products based upon 2.x...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Since Koffice 2 is in the works, and the CleverAge team is also working towards a new version of their plug-in, we have a healthy competition going on :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, did you perhaps test the Sun ODF plugin version 3.0 ?</p>
<p>That might explain the highest score, since it&#8217;s based on the OOo 3 codebase, beating 2.4 and other products based upon 2.x&#8230;</p>
<p>Since Koffice 2 is in the works, and the CleverAge team is also working towards a new version of their plug-in, we have a healthy competition going on :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Bollen</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2190</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Bollen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2190</guid>
		<description>Rob,  could you please provide some details about how you performed the 509 core tests that OpenFormula defines for spreadsheet functions ?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Did you used ODS files making use of the OpenFormula namespace (prefix of.) ? Do the 6 applications already recognise this namespace ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob,  could you please provide some details about how you performed the 509 core tests that OpenFormula defines for spreadsheet functions ?</p>
<p>Did you used ODS files making use of the OpenFormula namespace (prefix of.) ? Do the 6 applications already recognise this namespace ?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Potts</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2188</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Potts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/03/odf-spreadsheet-interoperability-theory-and-practice.html#comment-2188</guid>
		<description>Could you post a link to the OpenFormula function specifications?  I can review the text of the mathematical ones, and of course when the public review version comes out I can submit any issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you post a link to the OpenFormula function specifications?  I can review the text of the mathematical ones, and of course when the public review version comes out I can submit any issues.</p>
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