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	<title>Comments on: The Legend of the Rat Farmer</title>
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	<description>Thinking the unthinkable, pondering the imponderable, effing the ineffable and scruting the inscrutable</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/legend-of-rat-farmer.html#comment-1213</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/the-legend-of-the-rat-farmer.html#comment-1213</guid>
		<description>Actually, rat bounties have been common throughout history, and are still popular today, from Bangladesh to central Lousiana. And yes, there are documented instances of people breeding rats for the bounties. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The funniest is the case of Seattle. Seattle offered rat bounties various times in the 19th century without incident, but in 1907, there was a minor scandal when a rat farm was discovered. As soon as this was reported in the press, of course, other people started doing the same thing. The City Council joked about taxing rat farms to pay for the rat bounty, then actually took it seriously enough to vote on it (they voted no), then finally eliminated the bounty. Less than 30 years later, during the Great Depression, they instituted a rat bounty into the Hoovervilles, and this time there was an explosion of rat farms. The press had a field day--starting with the Seattle Times, but spreading nationwide--laughing at the gullible Seattle government getting caught by the same scam twice. Other documented cases exist in French Colonial Hanoi in 1902 and Beijing in 1899. Given the popularity of rat bounties throughout history, it&#039;s undoubtedly happened many more times.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;However, many of the stories are clearly apocryphal. People in San Francisco occasionally misremember a bounty-related scandal from 1906; the actual story had nothing to do with rat farms, but rather with people enticing small children into hunting rats for them (at the time, people believed these rats were carrying the Plague) by trading candy for rat tails. In Los Angeles in 1903, some racist troublemakers blamed the Chinatown rat problem on local residents breeding rats for food (supposedly the Chinese considered rats a delicacy), and after the city offered a rat bounty, the story mutated into the Chinese breeding rats for the bounty, but there was no truth to either version. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;After the Seattle scandal, journalists in New York and London began &quot;reminding&quot; people of similar events in their cities&#039; pasts, although there doesn&#039;t seem to be any contemporary account of any of these events (although most of them are vague enough that it&#039;s hard to prove either way, that doesn&#039;t exactly lend them credibility). The Seattle Underground tour tells visitors a slightly distorted version of their first rat farming story, which is probably responsible for the recent spread of the story as a sort of urban legend that can be placed in any city at any time (including Ankh Morpork in the Discworld books).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, rat bounties have been common throughout history, and are still popular today, from Bangladesh to central Lousiana. And yes, there are documented instances of people breeding rats for the bounties. </p>
<p>The funniest is the case of Seattle. Seattle offered rat bounties various times in the 19th century without incident, but in 1907, there was a minor scandal when a rat farm was discovered. As soon as this was reported in the press, of course, other people started doing the same thing. The City Council joked about taxing rat farms to pay for the rat bounty, then actually took it seriously enough to vote on it (they voted no), then finally eliminated the bounty. Less than 30 years later, during the Great Depression, they instituted a rat bounty into the Hoovervilles, and this time there was an explosion of rat farms. The press had a field day&#8211;starting with the Seattle Times, but spreading nationwide&#8211;laughing at the gullible Seattle government getting caught by the same scam twice. Other documented cases exist in French Colonial Hanoi in 1902 and Beijing in 1899. Given the popularity of rat bounties throughout history, it&#8217;s undoubtedly happened many more times.</p>
<p>However, many of the stories are clearly apocryphal. People in San Francisco occasionally misremember a bounty-related scandal from 1906; the actual story had nothing to do with rat farms, but rather with people enticing small children into hunting rats for them (at the time, people believed these rats were carrying the Plague) by trading candy for rat tails. In Los Angeles in 1903, some racist troublemakers blamed the Chinatown rat problem on local residents breeding rats for food (supposedly the Chinese considered rats a delicacy), and after the city offered a rat bounty, the story mutated into the Chinese breeding rats for the bounty, but there was no truth to either version. </p>
<p>After the Seattle scandal, journalists in New York and London began &#8220;reminding&#8221; people of similar events in their cities&#8217; pasts, although there doesn&#8217;t seem to be any contemporary account of any of these events (although most of them are vague enough that it&#8217;s hard to prove either way, that doesn&#8217;t exactly lend them credibility). The Seattle Underground tour tells visitors a slightly distorted version of their first rat farming story, which is probably responsible for the recent spread of the story as a sort of urban legend that can be placed in any city at any time (including Ankh Morpork in the Discworld books).</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/legend-of-rat-farmer.html#comment-776</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 01:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/the-legend-of-the-rat-farmer.html#comment-776</guid>
		<description>Astrix and Dilbert used it as well?  I&#039;ve heard the same basic economic argument used to criticize rewards given by anti-virus companies for the first instance of a new virus submitted to them.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think the rat version is apocryphal, though it pops up occasionally, set in &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-59/iss-4/p16.html &quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Singapore&lt;/a&gt;, or &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,930646-1,00.html&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dudley, England&lt;/a&gt;.  I tried to make my version suitably fictitious, and in the style of a fairy tale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Astrix and Dilbert used it as well?  I&#8217;ve heard the same basic economic argument used to criticize rewards given by anti-virus companies for the first instance of a new virus submitted to them.</p>
<p>I think the rat version is apocryphal, though it pops up occasionally, set in <a HREF="http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-59/iss-4/p16.html " REL="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Singapore</a>, or <a HREF="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,930646-1,00.html" REL="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Dudley, England</a>.  I tried to make my version suitably fictitious, and in the style of a fairy tale.</p>
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		<title>By: phillip brown</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/legend-of-rat-farmer.html#comment-775</link>
		<dc:creator>phillip brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 00:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/the-legend-of-the-rat-farmer.html#comment-775</guid>
		<description>The story is similar to a Dilbert comic from some time ago. The PHB offers a reward for every bug found. The last panel has Wally saying &quot;I&#039;m going to write me a new minivan&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Matusow obviously doesn&#039;t travel overseas, or if he does, doesn&#039;t bring any type of electrical appliance.  Does he sincerely believe that life is better by having to have multiple adapters for the various types of electrical plugs used by different countries?  I guess if you are in the business of making these adapters, the status quo is a lot better than if all the plugs were the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The story is similar to a Dilbert comic from some time ago. The PHB offers a reward for every bug found. The last panel has Wally saying &#8220;I&#8217;m going to write me a new minivan&#8221;</p>
<p>Matusow obviously doesn&#8217;t travel overseas, or if he does, doesn&#8217;t bring any type of electrical appliance.  Does he sincerely believe that life is better by having to have multiple adapters for the various types of electrical plugs used by different countries?  I guess if you are in the business of making these adapters, the status quo is a lot better than if all the plugs were the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/legend-of-rat-farmer.html#comment-774</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 08:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/the-legend-of-the-rat-farmer.html#comment-774</guid>
		<description>Just to let you know, such an example was also used in &quot;Astrix and the mansion of the gods&quot;, by Rene Goscinny and Albert Uderzo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mansions_of_the_Gods).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There they used trees.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Winter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to let you know, such an example was also used in &#8220;Astrix and the mansion of the gods&#8221;, by Rene Goscinny and Albert Uderzo (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mansions_of_the_Gods" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mansions_of_the_Gods</a>).</p>
<p>There they used trees.</p>
<p>Winter</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Ward</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/legend-of-rat-farmer.html#comment-772</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Ward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2007 20:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/the-legend-of-the-rat-farmer.html#comment-772</guid>
		<description>You forgot about requesting an ISO standard for IBM Lotus SmartSuite (i.e. Lotus WordPro).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;However, maybe we should all forget about IBM Lotus SmartSuite. I can&#039;t see it getting ported to Linux :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You forgot about requesting an ISO standard for IBM Lotus SmartSuite (i.e. Lotus WordPro).</p>
<p>However, maybe we should all forget about IBM Lotus SmartSuite. I can&#8217;t see it getting ported to Linux :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Wesley Parish</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/legend-of-rat-farmer.html#comment-769</link>
		<dc:creator>Wesley Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2007 10:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/the-legend-of-the-rat-farmer.html#comment-769</guid>
		<description>Perhaps we should also ask Microsoft to consider an analogy in Intellectual property Rights, preciousss!!!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Perhaps we should ask Microsoft to consider the importance of pressuring the Peoples Republic of China to respect Microsoft&#039;s IPR, if by analogy, wildly differing ISO standards on the same subject matter, are permissible and indeed, desirable.  If the PRC has one idea of the value of IPR and Microsoft has another, that&#039;s just the marketplace at work.  On the other hand, if Microsoft succeeds in pressuring the PRC to adopt Microsoft&#039;s views on IPR, then that is monopolistic abuse, according to &quot;Microsoft exec talks patent politics&quot;, 24 May 2007,&lt;br/&gt;http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39287221,00.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps we should also ask Microsoft to consider an analogy in Intellectual property Rights, preciousss!!!</p>
<p>Perhaps we should ask Microsoft to consider the importance of pressuring the Peoples Republic of China to respect Microsoft&#8217;s IPR, if by analogy, wildly differing ISO standards on the same subject matter, are permissible and indeed, desirable.  If the PRC has one idea of the value of IPR and Microsoft has another, that&#8217;s just the marketplace at work.  On the other hand, if Microsoft succeeds in pressuring the PRC to adopt Microsoft&#8217;s views on IPR, then that is monopolistic abuse, according to &#8220;Microsoft exec talks patent politics&#8221;, 24 May 2007,<br /><a href="http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39287221,00.htm" rel="nofollow">http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39287221,00.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/legend-of-rat-farmer.html#comment-764</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 00:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/the-legend-of-the-rat-farmer.html#comment-764</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s an interesting quote.  It shows a misunderstanding of patents, standards and monopolies, all within a short space, quite an achievement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an interesting quote.  It shows a misunderstanding of patents, standards and monopolies, all within a short space, quite an achievement.</p>
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		<title>By: PolR</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/legend-of-rat-farmer.html#comment-763</link>
		<dc:creator>PolR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 23:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/the-legend-of-the-rat-farmer.html#comment-763</guid>
		<description>Found on Updegrove&#039;s blog. There is a link to an interview of Microsoft&#039;s UK national technology officer, Jerry Fishenden. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A choice quote:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;If standards meant that the first standard approved was the only one that you could use, then how would that differ from patents? You&#039;re effectively saying this has now got a monopoly on how you will do things.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Source:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39287221,00.htm&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; ZDNet &lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Found on Updegrove&#8217;s blog. There is a link to an interview of Microsoft&#8217;s UK national technology officer, Jerry Fishenden. </p>
<p>A choice quote:</p>
<p>&#8220;If standards meant that the first standard approved was the only one that you could use, then how would that differ from patents? You&#8217;re effectively saying this has now got a monopoly on how you will do things.&#8221;</p>
<p>Source:<br /><a HREF="http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39287221,00.htm" REL="nofollow" rel="nofollow"> ZDNet </a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/legend-of-rat-farmer.html#comment-762</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 19:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/the-legend-of-the-rat-farmer.html#comment-762</guid>
		<description>The truth in Matusow&#039;s post is also in what he does not say, in that what Microsoft wants is to become the pivot format, the only format that is accurately described, rendered, and around which all second-class formats play.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But I wonder how this is possible with Microsoft reluctence to start a real interop project when you know that not even Office 2007 reads, writes and processes ECMA 376 documents.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;For the record, Office 2007 reads, writes and processes Office 2007 documents which are extensions of ECMA 376 documents. The extensions are undocumented and, as Rob said, are the DNA of the Office 2007 source code implementation itself.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Heck, even Office 2007 compatibility mode is full of bugs. I have to worry about problems every week with regular Excel (.xls) files that open well in Excel 97-2003 and not well in Excel 2007. And vice versa.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The dirty trick in the whole MS XML interop initiatives? That it is real easy to start a new project, since the barrier is so low. See MS blogs these days, that&#039;s all they are doing (of course, if you take further look at who is doing what, you&#039;ll soon realize that these are paid MS consultants, or people who have a direct interest in trying to make MS look like the good guys). But the ease to start an interop project is by no mean an indication of the ability to successfully provide round-trip scenarios. Especially when round-trip scenarios involve direct infringements of Microsoft IP (i.e. all the undocumented pieces). Best example so far : Novell&#039;s basic implementation of VBA macros.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Anyway, business as usual...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;-Stephane Rodriguez</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The truth in Matusow&#8217;s post is also in what he does not say, in that what Microsoft wants is to become the pivot format, the only format that is accurately described, rendered, and around which all second-class formats play.</p>
<p>But I wonder how this is possible with Microsoft reluctence to start a real interop project when you know that not even Office 2007 reads, writes and processes ECMA 376 documents.</p>
<p>For the record, Office 2007 reads, writes and processes Office 2007 documents which are extensions of ECMA 376 documents. The extensions are undocumented and, as Rob said, are the DNA of the Office 2007 source code implementation itself.</p>
<p>Heck, even Office 2007 compatibility mode is full of bugs. I have to worry about problems every week with regular Excel (.xls) files that open well in Excel 97-2003 and not well in Excel 2007. And vice versa.</p>
<p>The dirty trick in the whole MS XML interop initiatives? That it is real easy to start a new project, since the barrier is so low. See MS blogs these days, that&#8217;s all they are doing (of course, if you take further look at who is doing what, you&#8217;ll soon realize that these are paid MS consultants, or people who have a direct interest in trying to make MS look like the good guys). But the ease to start an interop project is by no mean an indication of the ability to successfully provide round-trip scenarios. Especially when round-trip scenarios involve direct infringements of Microsoft IP (i.e. all the undocumented pieces). Best example so far : Novell&#8217;s basic implementation of VBA macros.</p>
<p>Anyway, business as usual&#8230;</p>
<p>-Stephane Rodriguez</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/legend-of-rat-farmer.html#comment-761</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 23:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/05/the-legend-of-the-rat-farmer.html#comment-761</guid>
		<description>A wonderful story, and irrefutable logic.  The image that comes to my mind when I see Microsoft&#039;s logic go down like the Hindenburg is that of a group of people standing in front of a duck.  Another person is standing across from them pointing at the duck and loudly declaring it&#039;s a buffalo.  The people are shaking their heads in dismay and telling him it&#039;s a duck.  So maybe the guy who wants the duck to be a buffalo holds up a thousand dollar bill and says, &quot;who else sees a buffalo here&quot;?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think this is a case where both forsight and hindsight are 20/20.  I have this nagging fear though, that the future will look back at us (the past) with dismay about the subject of standards.  &quot;Why didn&#039;t somebody tell them it would be so much easier with one real standard instead of going through all that trouble.&quot;  They won&#039;t see the legions battering away at Microsoft and Microsoft battering back with money, influence, power, lies and self preserving ignorance.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;To those from the future who may be reading this in some archive, the outcome of this standards battle with Microsoft is not assured.  We feel confident that we (the public) will win, but Microsoft is very powerful.  In fact, they are the most powerful software vendor and one of the most powerful corporations in the world.  Our only hope is to convince the weak willed and possibly paid-for politicians and bureaucrats that one standard is the best for all of us.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Richard Chapman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A wonderful story, and irrefutable logic.  The image that comes to my mind when I see Microsoft&#8217;s logic go down like the Hindenburg is that of a group of people standing in front of a duck.  Another person is standing across from them pointing at the duck and loudly declaring it&#8217;s a buffalo.  The people are shaking their heads in dismay and telling him it&#8217;s a duck.  So maybe the guy who wants the duck to be a buffalo holds up a thousand dollar bill and says, &#8220;who else sees a buffalo here&#8221;?</p>
<p>I think this is a case where both forsight and hindsight are 20/20.  I have this nagging fear though, that the future will look back at us (the past) with dismay about the subject of standards.  &#8220;Why didn&#8217;t somebody tell them it would be so much easier with one real standard instead of going through all that trouble.&#8221;  They won&#8217;t see the legions battering away at Microsoft and Microsoft battering back with money, influence, power, lies and self preserving ignorance.  </p>
<p>To those from the future who may be reading this in some archive, the outcome of this standards battle with Microsoft is not assured.  We feel confident that we (the public) will win, but Microsoft is very powerful.  In fact, they are the most powerful software vendor and one of the most powerful corporations in the world.  Our only hope is to convince the weak willed and possibly paid-for politicians and bureaucrats that one standard is the best for all of us.</p>
<p>Richard Chapman</p>
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