Comments on: Introducing ODF 1.1 http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/02/introducing-odf-11.html Thinking the unthinkable, pondering the imponderable, effing the ineffable and scruting the inscrutable Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:51:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Joanie http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/02/introducing-odf-11.html#comment-459 Joanie Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:46:00 +0000 http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/02/introducing-odf-1-1.html#comment-459 "What difference could a file format make?"<br /><br />A huge one when it comes to translating the document into braille. :-) Granted, that is another instance of "when loading or saving the document," but it's not often thought of.... “What difference could a file format make?”

A huge one when it comes to translating the document into braille. :-) Granted, that is another instance of “when loading or saving the document,” but it’s not often thought of….

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/02/introducing-odf-11.html#comment-448 Anonymous Mon, 05 Feb 2007 06:51:00 +0000 http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/02/introducing-odf-1-1.html#comment-448 This to me shows the difference between OOXML and ODF. We hear that OOXML has flaws, and suddenly it's something that impugns Microsoft's credibility, it's not really as bad as we think it is (even if the files are brain dumps of MS Office), and "contradictions" no longer mean what anyone used to think they mean, so MS should get a standard, too.<br /><br />With ODF, on the other hand, we hear some complaints that the spreadsheet functions aren't defined well enough and now we have this group working hard to produce the relevant documentation to address the flaws. We hear that there might be slight issues with accessibility due to it not having a place to store alt tags for some image types, so they add them. In other words, wherever the shortcomings are found, they're being swiftly fixed.<br /><br />I really wish Microsoft would start doing that. Sad thing is, it could really improve some of their products. This to me shows the difference between OOXML and ODF. We hear that OOXML has flaws, and suddenly it’s something that impugns Microsoft’s credibility, it’s not really as bad as we think it is (even if the files are brain dumps of MS Office), and “contradictions” no longer mean what anyone used to think they mean, so MS should get a standard, too.

With ODF, on the other hand, we hear some complaints that the spreadsheet functions aren’t defined well enough and now we have this group working hard to produce the relevant documentation to address the flaws. We hear that there might be slight issues with accessibility due to it not having a place to store alt tags for some image types, so they add them. In other words, wherever the shortcomings are found, they’re being swiftly fixed.

I really wish Microsoft would start doing that. Sad thing is, it could really improve some of their products.

]]> By: orcmid http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/02/introducing-odf-11.html#comment-445 orcmid Sat, 03 Feb 2007 20:36:00 +0000 http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/02/introducing-odf-1-1.html#comment-445 Hey, kudos!<br /><br />I would have thought that there was little contact between a format and accessibility as well, but I am learning otherwise. Your explanation is also very helpful. <br /><br />I've got the business card down, but everything else needs more work.<br /><br />This is nice work. I love the transmittal report from the TC to the big guns. Hey, kudos!

I would have thought that there was little contact between a format and accessibility as well, but I am learning otherwise. Your explanation is also very helpful.

I’ve got the business card down, but everything else needs more work.

This is nice work. I love the transmittal report from the TC to the big guns.

]]> By: Rob http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/02/introducing-odf-11.html#comment-444 Rob Sat, 03 Feb 2007 03:34:00 +0000 http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/02/introducing-odf-1-1.html#comment-444 Jonathan,<br /><br />If you look around you'll see no shortage of people writing about ODF news and ODF happenings. I feel no reason to duplicate their good work unless I have a perspective on the issue worth talking about. My goal is to have most of this blog consist of original research and observations.<br /><br />My commentaries on OOXML, the "rants" as you call them, have been very popular and widely quoted. I'm sure you didn't visit today hoping to read a status report on ODF, did you?<br /><br />As for the config values in OpenOffice, do they really belong in the spec? For example, has the CleverAge Add-in for Word found any place where the fidelity of the conversion is diminished because it lacks one of these settings? I'd be interested in hearing if this is an issue.<br /><br />Personally I think it is axiomatic that an application-independent file format should not specify application-dependent settings. It even sounds obvious when you state it that way. Sure, there will always be application settings, and I think ODF handles this in a sensible way: segregate them to their own XML file and store them as application-dependent name/value pairs. <br /><br />What else would you suggest? I guess we could declare them to be application-defined rather than application-dependent. That would suggest that application vendors should publish the details of the extensions they add. I guess I'd be open to that.<br /><br />(Extra points to whoever guesses where OOXML stores their application-dependent settings. And yes, this is a trick question.)<br /><br />The OpenFormula draft is almost done. The last I heard the Formula Subcommittee was down to their last 20 functions or so. So I'd expect a draft to be posted "really soon now", followed by review by the full ODF TC, then the solicitation for public comments, followed by OASIS membership vote, followed by submission to ISO as part of ODF 1.2. But vendors obviously aren't going to wait for ISO publication before they start implementing it. ODF developers are involved with the specification of OpenFormula. So I'd expect implementations to synch up on OpenFormula before this even is voted on as an OASIS Standard. Jonathan,

If you look around you’ll see no shortage of people writing about ODF news and ODF happenings. I feel no reason to duplicate their good work unless I have a perspective on the issue worth talking about. My goal is to have most of this blog consist of original research and observations.

My commentaries on OOXML, the “rants” as you call them, have been very popular and widely quoted. I’m sure you didn’t visit today hoping to read a status report on ODF, did you?

As for the config values in OpenOffice, do they really belong in the spec? For example, has the CleverAge Add-in for Word found any place where the fidelity of the conversion is diminished because it lacks one of these settings? I’d be interested in hearing if this is an issue.

Personally I think it is axiomatic that an application-independent file format should not specify application-dependent settings. It even sounds obvious when you state it that way. Sure, there will always be application settings, and I think ODF handles this in a sensible way: segregate them to their own XML file and store them as application-dependent name/value pairs.

What else would you suggest? I guess we could declare them to be application-defined rather than application-dependent. That would suggest that application vendors should publish the details of the extensions they add. I guess I’d be open to that.

(Extra points to whoever guesses where OOXML stores their application-dependent settings. And yes, this is a trick question.)

The OpenFormula draft is almost done. The last I heard the Formula Subcommittee was down to their last 20 functions or so. So I’d expect a draft to be posted “really soon now”, followed by review by the full ODF TC, then the solicitation for public comments, followed by OASIS membership vote, followed by submission to ISO as part of ODF 1.2. But vendors obviously aren’t going to wait for ISO publication before they start implementing it. ODF developers are involved with the specification of OpenFormula. So I’d expect implementations to synch up on OpenFormula before this even is voted on as an OASIS Standard.

]]> By: Jonathan http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/02/introducing-odf-11.html#comment-443 Jonathan Sat, 03 Feb 2007 02:29:00 +0000 http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/02/introducing-odf-1-1.html#comment-443 I'm glad that you stopped ranting about OpenXML long enough to talk about the stuff we actually come hear to read about.<br /><br />So now that we are on the topic of ODF and the speed in which it is changing I have to ask:<br /><br />When is ODF going to include the stuff we need to implement it right now? You know, like all those config values OpenOffice spews out and the formulas for spreadsheets?<br /><br />I don't mean to sound impatient, but it has been over 4 years in the making and we still don't have all of the basics documented. I don't know about you, but when I talk about "open standards", digging through someone elses code isn't what I have in mind. I’m glad that you stopped ranting about OpenXML long enough to talk about the stuff we actually come hear to read about.

So now that we are on the topic of ODF and the speed in which it is changing I have to ask:

When is ODF going to include the stuff we need to implement it right now? You know, like all those config values OpenOffice spews out and the formulas for spreadsheets?

I don’t mean to sound impatient, but it has been over 4 years in the making and we still don’t have all of the basics documented. I don’t know about you, but when I talk about “open standards”, digging through someone elses code isn’t what I have in mind.

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